Dear England - NT Olivier / Prince Edward Theatre / Lowry

[Jon]

I'm guessing SATSE won't be open ended if Dear England is planned for late 2024 at the Gillian Lynne.

[greenswan]

Saw this last night based on reviews on here. A crowd pleaser and the audience was noticeably younger than I have often experienced it at the NT. And it definitely works as a play, even if you haven't watched football before - comes with the bonus that the game results are a surprise. Not sure it would stand up to repeated viewings but a great one off watch for me.

First half on the classic dramatic arc, second half is a bit weaker and meanders but not excessively. Some issues are only touched on in passing. Actors were great, staging excellent. This is genuinely entertaining to watch, even from the back of the circle, as the choreography made brilliant use of the space. Touching and funny moments are well interleaved, keeping it engaging and well balanced.

The tory prime ministers for me fall into 'have to laugh, so you don't cry' but yes, the easy caricature covers the damage to the country. The ending is lovely, well done and very upbeat. But I did walk out thinking that I disagreed with the sense of hope. I don't perceive England to have become 'kinder' in the years covered in the play - quite the opposite in fact.

[c4ndyc4ne]

Jul 12, 2023 7:10:02 GMT greenswan said:

Saw this last night based on reviews on here. A crowd pleaser and the audience was noticeably younger than I have often experienced it at the NT. And it definitely works as a play, even if you haven't watched football before - comes with the bonus that the game results are a surprise. Not sure it would stand up to repeated viewings but a great one off watch for me.

First half on the classic dramatic arc, second half is a bit weaker and meanders but not excessively. Some issues are only touched on in passing. Actors were great, staging excellent. This is genuinely entertaining to watch, even from the back of the circle, as the choreography made brilliant use of the space. Touching and funny moments are well interleaved, keeping it engaging and well balanced.

The tory prime ministers for me fall into 'have to laugh, so you don't cry' but yes, the easy caricature covers the damage to the country. The ending is lovely, well done and very upbeat. But I did walk out thinking that I disagreed with the sense of hope. I don't perceive England to have become 'kinder' in the years covered in the play - quite the opposite in fact.

Interesting take on the ending. I felt that Graham acknowledged how England as a nation had become less 'kind' and more fractured (ie more vocally racist, Brexit fall-out etc), but that what the England team represented, and the new form of unity that Southgate and co fostered, may suggest that in the future the nation could find a sense of unity and common ground. So it's hopeful, yes, but it's not saying that at a national level we're there yet. 

[mrnutz]

This is as excellent as everyone says it is. I absolutely loved it last night. Moving and hilarious in parts, too.

Interesting to write something that I feel only works right now - you wouldn't want to see this in two years, unless it gets an update to close Gareth's story.

[theatrenerd]

Jul 9, 2023 17:27:53 GMT Being Alive said:

Where on earth are they going to put it though without serious redesign and essentially losing the grandness it gets from the Olivier?

I reckon a chance of NT Live but no transfer personally.

It is being filmed next Wednesday matinee, so probably a (delayed) NT Live broadcast or it could just be for archive.

[theatrelover97]

Jul 13, 2023 11:31:24 GMT mrnutz said:

This is as excellent as everyone says it is. I absolutely loved it last night. Moving and hilarious in parts, too.

Interesting to write something that I feel only works right now - you wouldn't want to see this in two years, unless it gets an update to close Gareth's story.

I agree I loved but the ending only works as it does until next June/July. Post the Euros it won't work quite so well (The audience will have facts the characters don't) unless it's changed to reference that. It would be slightly weird to see in September 2024 if England have won the Euros and Sputhgate and the team get their happy ending or haven't and Southgate quit having got close again or maybe ended his time on a weak note after a poor Euros.

Plus also the exit of Dele scene doesn't fully work quite so well now after his interview this week.


I can see a TV version based on the story coming at some point.

[alessia]

Finally saw this last night after the cancellation a few weeks ago. I had a great time, there isn’t much to add to what others have already said. RF embodies Southgate perfectly (as much as I have seen him on tv which is admittedly not much lol) and Will Close was incredibly good and hilarious as Harry Kane. I was not expecting to laugh quite as much as I did throughout. The only bit I found a little cringey was the introduction of the various prime ministers. Everything else was joyous and a fun night at the theatre. The audience adored this and everyone was standing and singing.
Wes Anderson was in the bookshop before the play and again at the interval, I think most ppl didn’t recognise him (was anyone there last night? Did you see him?) - I was a little starstruck I must admit! He went to see The Motive.

[dlevi]

I saw this last night and thought it was terrific - has someone on here already said: It's Chariots of Fire meets Ted Lasso put through the wonderful mind of James Graham? If not , let me be the first. Smart, emotional, funny and wonderfully acted by the entire company - those who were supposed to be cartoons, were and those who were living breathing and flawed human beings were as well - Rupert Goold and Mr Graham have achieved that rare balance. This is genuine "Populist" theatre at its best and the National is the perfect home for it.

[theoracle]

James Graham strikes again… this is rather glorious. Very well paced, I can’t believe it was almost 3hrs long - it felt like 1hr 45. The characters are all very well developed and I was amazed by how well the piece transports you back to such recent history. I really liked the optimistic tone of the piece personally - it shows you that Britain is still a great place with institutions to be proud of despite what certain outlets might want to tell us. Fiennes and McKee both brilliant in their roles respectively. Rupert Goold confidently fills the space too - my heart felt very full watching this. British Theatre at its best

[Being Alive]

Having heard this is coming back next year I'd imagine it's for archive

[jm25]

I absolutely adored this. I figured it'd be a pretty safe bet for me since I'm quite into football, but I didn't expect to find it as funny, moving and joyous as I did. Joseph Fiennes is uncannily good as Gareth Southgate, and Will Close's Harry Kane is spot on. But I also thought it was clear that the chap playing Eric Dier had really done his homework too!

I'd love to see this again at some point. Haven't seen an audience enjoy itself so much in ages!

[swill]

This being written only after the Qatar World Cup (which was only 5 months ago from rehearsals…) makes this urgent piece even more incredible, and according to Graham, its minimalistic but crucial set being designed before a full draft!

Similarly, only meeting Southgate after rehearsals had begun, James Graham’s writing somehow manages to fully make it feel that Joseph Fiennes (alongside his performance) IS Southgate.

[clarefh]

Also loved this and don’t really have anything to add to what has been said.

What’s been great is everyone I know who has seen it seems to have loved it - from a really broad spectrum of friends, those who haven’t been to theatre before to regular theatregoers who have been a bit jaded of late. Even my definitely non theatre going teenage son loves it. It seems to manage that rare balance of being accessible, enough pazzaz in the staging but with a heart that touches people.

[sfsusan]

Jul 5, 2023 14:52:27 GMT joem said:

Can you enjoy this play if you know nothing about football and care even less?

I'm an American so don't know anything about football, don't really care about sports, and don't know the people or events involved. I loved it! (As did some American friends who'd seen it earlier and urged me to go.) The play deals with mostly universal themes, so is easily relevant to anyone.

I did think the various prime ministers seemed out of place, being very 'Spitting Image' in an otherwise more naturalistic play. I thought it was interesting the use of the women's team's triumph, which I suppose was meant to start the national healing that Southgate called for.

I realized at the end that I'd been in London for the Euro 2020 Men's Final and the violent aftermath (both in the streets and online). At the time, I hadn't really appreciated the background or the significance. Now I want to follow next year's Euros to see the next chapter in the 'story'.

[theatremiss]

Saw this he other week and I’ve just been to see it again tonight. Absolutely love this. First visit I saw Will as Southgate and as I’ve already said he was fabulous. Tonight I saw Fiennes and he was truly spectacular. The mannerisms,walk, hand gestures were spot on. What a wonderful piece of theatre it is. Now can I squeeze in one more trip?

[danielwhit]

Saw this today, really nothing fundamentally new I can add to the choir here praising it.

Not surprised given James Graham's history that the politicians had a quick run out.

As others have said, this surely has to have a future life. There's too much potential for this to punch through to audiences the NT (and heck, most theatres) do not normally reach for it to not have that opportunity.

If it wasn't running for just a couple weeks more I'd be tempted to return.

[properjob]

It is a great show and the very model of what the national theatre should be doing. It is a proper state of the nation show but that is also a creative ( football on stage could have been a disaster ) and commercial ( massive cast) risk.
It clearly has the potential to reach out beyond the normal audience so I assume they will NTLive it at some point and if they don't do it soon I assume it is because they are planning to revive/transfer it.

[capybara]

Saw this on Friday evening and thought it was excellent. As someone who goes to both the theatre and football every week, I was admittedly a little nervous about how many two passions would combine - football strikes me as very hard to replicate on stage - but it was managed very well.

Dear England does a really good job of capturing the moods of the times, be it around post-Euro 2016 and the short-lived Allardyce reign or individual tournaments. The choreography of the penalty shoot outs is spot on, while the mannerisms and characteristics of each real life role is captured well. Fiennes absolutely embodies Southgate to the point I couldn’t quite remember the real GS’s face in the immediate aftermath!

The only improvement that could have been made would be more of a nod to the unsavoury side of England fans during Southgate’s tenure. The rioting and violence of thousands who forced their way into Wembley for the Euro 2020 final, for example (I was there - it was appalling). Also the fact that while more level headed football fans totally acknowledge the progress made, even after the France defeat, he receives a huge amount of criticism and calls to go from people who despise him for his political and moral views as much as anything else.

Southgate decided to stay on as England manager but the crowd’s reaction during and after the 4-0 home defeat vs Hungary (again, I was there - it was an embarrassing response from the fans) really hurt him and almost led to him walking away.

But that aside, this is one of the most intriguing and uplifting plays I’ve seen in a very long time. I’ll be going again if it comes back, which I’m certain it must do.

A contender for my play of the year and five big fat stars from me.

[theatremiss]

Jul 25, 2023 9:08:05 GMT capybara said:

Saw this on Friday evening and thought it was excellent. As someone who goes to both the theatre and football every week, I was admittedly a little nervous about how many two passions would combine - football strikes me as very hard to replicate on stage - but it was managed very well.

Dear England does a really good job of capturing the moods of the times, be it around post-Euro 2016 and the short-lived Allardyce reign or individual tournaments. The choreography of the penalty shoot outs is spot on, while the mannerisms and characteristics of each real life role is captured well. Fiennes absolutely embodies Southgate to the point I couldn’t quite remember the real GS’s face in the immediate aftermath!

The only improvement that could have been made would be more of a nod to the unsavoury side of England fans during Southgate’s tenure. The rioting and violence of thousands who forced their way into Wembley for the Euro 2020 final, for example (I was there - it was appalling). Also the fact that while more level headed football fans totally acknowledge the progress made, even after the France defeat, he receives a huge amount of criticism and calls to go from people who despise him for his political and moral views as much as anything else.

Southgate decided to stay on as England manager but the crowd’s reaction during and after the 4-0 home defeat vs Hungary (again, I was there - it was an embarrassing response from the fans) really hurt him and almost led to him walking away.

But that aside, this is one of the most intriguing and uplifting plays I’ve seen in a very long time. I’ll be going again if it comes back, which I’m certain it must do.

A contender for my play of the year and five big fat stars from me.

This year many plays have been great. But this is my favourite amongst many good ones ie seen. I love this play so much I’m back agai in this afternoon and have one more trip booked before it closes.

[showgirl]

Agree: it's superb.

[orchidman]

Jul 25, 2023 9:08:05 GMT capybara said:

The only improvement that could have been made would be more of a nod to the unsavoury side of England fans during Southgate’s tenure. The rioting and violence of thousands who forced their way into Wembley for the Euro 2020 final, for example (I was there - it was appalling). Also the fact that while more level headed football fans totally acknowledge the progress made, even after the France defeat, he receives a huge amount of criticism and calls to go from people who despise him for his political and moral views as much as anything else.

No, football fans who like winning don't like Southgate because he has an incredible track record of losing going back to 1996. After that he then lost the two major finals he reached as a player, one as captain. 

Then as England manager he has had a very strong squad at his disposal with players drawn from the best league in the world under the best club managers and he has had incredibly good luck with the opposition he has faced and the good fortune to effectively be the host nation of the 2021 Euros. And yet he always finds a way to lose.

In the knock-out stages of the 2018 World Cup the first decent side he faced was Croatia and he managed to lose despite taking the lead and despite having a much stronger bench when it went to Extra Time. In the knock-out stages of the 2021 Euros he is lucky enough to play an even poxier side in the semi-finals, Denmark, and at home, and still can't beat them in normal time. Then facing a very average Italy side and despite again taking the lead he manages to lose a final at Wembley, despite again having a much stronger bench when it went to Extra Time. Then in the 2022 World Cup he finally faces a decent side earlier in the Quarter Finals and despite France missing key players they get him beat in normal time with that 36-year-old superstar of world football Olivier Giroud landing the killer blow.

Some sportsmen are winners and some are losers. Southgate is a loser. He has always been a loser. But he has done a great PR job to convince the FA to continue to pay him £5 million a year to lose.

It is a sign of the decline of our country and its spirit that we champion a guy for being nice despite him being the exact opposite of what is needed in his role. 

Because the purpose of sport is to win. And winners win and losers lose. That's the brute truth which a nice boy like James Graham can't or won't tell you.

[capybara]

Jul 26, 2023 14:53:51 GMT orchidman said:

Jul 25, 2023 9:08:05 GMT capybara said:

The only improvement that could have been made would be more of a nod to the unsavoury side of England fans during Southgate’s tenure. The rioting and violence of thousands who forced their way into Wembley for the Euro 2020 final, for example (I was there - it was appalling). Also the fact that while more level headed football fans totally acknowledge the progress made, even after the France defeat, he receives a huge amount of criticism and calls to go from people who despise him for his political and moral views as much as anything else.

No, football fans who like winning don't like Southgate because he has an incredible track record of losing going back to 1996. After that he then lost the two major finals he reached as a player, one as captain. 

Then as England manager he has had a very strong squad at his disposal with players drawn from the best league in the world under the best club managers and he has had incredibly good luck with the opposition he has faced and the good fortune to effectively be the host nation of the 2021 Euros. And yet he always finds a way to lose.

In the knock-out stages of the 2018 World Cup the first decent side he faced was Croatia and he managed to lose despite taking the lead and despite having a much stronger bench when it went to Extra Time. In the knock-out stages of the 2021 Euros he is lucky enough to play an even poxier side in the semi-finals, Denmark, and at home, and still can't beat them in normal time. Then facing a very average Italy side and despite again taking the lead he manages to lose a final at Wembley, despite again having a much stronger bench when it went to Extra Time. Then in the 2022 World Cup he finally faces a decent side earlier in the Quarter Finals and despite France missing key players they get him beat in normal time with that 36-year-old superstar of world football Olivier Giroud landing the killer blow.

Some sportsmen are winners and some are losers. Southgate is a loser. He has always been a loser. But he has done a great PR job to convince the FA to continue to pay him £5 million a year to lose.

It is a sign of the decline of our country and its spirit that we champion a guy for being nice despite him being the exact opposite of what is needed in his role. 

Because the purpose of sport is to win. And winners win and losers lose. That's the brute truth which a nice boy like James Graham can't or won't tell you.

As someone who follows England home and away, all I can say is I’m glad you spend your time posting on a theatre forum rather than about football.

I suppose we shall have to agree to disagree! He has the backing of England’s travelling fans who actually spend money to follow the team, that’s the main thing.

[wiggymess]

Jul 26, 2023 14:53:51 GMT orchidman said:

Jul 25, 2023 9:08:05 GMT capybara said:

The only improvement that could have been made would be more of a nod to the unsavoury side of England fans during Southgate’s tenure. The rioting and violence of thousands who forced their way into Wembley for the Euro 2020 final, for example (I was there - it was appalling). Also the fact that while more level headed football fans totally acknowledge the progress made, even after the France defeat, he receives a huge amount of criticism and calls to go from people who despise him for his political and moral views as much as anything else.

No, football fans who like winning don't like Southgate because he has an incredible track record of losing going back to 1996. After that he then lost the two major finals he reached as a player, one as captain. 

Then as England manager he has had a very strong squad at his disposal with players drawn from the best league in the world under the best club managers and he has had incredibly good luck with the opposition he has faced and the good fortune to effectively be the host nation of the 2021 Euros. And yet he always finds a way to lose.

In the knock-out stages of the 2018 World Cup the first decent side he faced was Croatia and he managed to lose despite taking the lead and despite having a much stronger bench when it went to Extra Time. In the knock-out stages of the 2021 Euros he is lucky enough to play an even poxier side in the semi-finals, Denmark, and at home, and still can't beat them in normal time. Then facing a very average Italy side and despite again taking the lead he manages to lose a final at Wembley, despite again having a much stronger bench when it went to Extra Time. Then in the 2022 World Cup he finally faces a decent side earlier in the Quarter Finals and despite France missing key players they get him beat in normal time with that 36-year-old superstar of world football Olivier Giroud landing the killer blow.

Some sportsmen are winners and some are losers. Southgate is a loser. He has always been a loser. But he has done a great PR job to convince the FA to continue to pay him £5 million a year to lose.

It is a sign of the decline of our country and its spirit that we champion a guy for being nice despite him being the exact opposite of what is needed in his role. 

Because the purpose of sport is to win. And winners win and losers lose. That's the brute truth which a nice boy like James Graham can't or won't tell you.

Who would you have appointed instead, and who would you rather appoint now?

[sfsusan]

Jul 26, 2023 14:53:51 GMT orchidman said:

Because the purpose of sport is to win.

I gather you're not a proponent of "it's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game"?

[theatremiss]

Jul 26, 2023 15:26:06 GMT capybara said:

Jul 26, 2023 14:53:51 GMT orchidman said:

As someone who follows England home and away, all I can say is I’m glad you spend your time posting on a theatre forum rather than about football.

I suppose we shall have to agree to disagree! He has the backing of England’s travelling fans who actually spend money to follow the team, that’s the main thing.

I last saw England play earlier this month. Away to Malta. I was sat close enough to see Southgate and Fiennes is so spot on with his mannerisms and movements. I think he’s worked hard to “be more Gareth”