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Post by d'James on Jun 18, 2016 3:09:49 GMT
I do find this board rather intimidating from time to time. I want this to be a place to ask questions which might be obvious to some people but that are completely foreign to others
A place to ask questions, where no one will judge you for not knowing, I hope.
To start off:
What are Swings?
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Post by Michael on Jun 18, 2016 3:31:51 GMT
To start off: What are Swings? A "normal" ensemble member has one track in the show they perform every night. Such a "track" is not necessarily the same "character" though. Take Wicked for example: Oz Citizens, Students, Monkeys, Palace Guards and Emerald City Citizens are all played by the ensemble. For example, wnsemble member A's track is Oz Citizen 3, Student 2, Monkey 4, Palace Guard 1 and Emerald City Citizen 7, whereas for ensemble member B it's Oz Citizen 2, Student 1, Monkey 3, Palace Guard 3 and Emerald City Citizen 2 and so on. On top of that, some ensemble members also understudy a supporting or lead role. So if an ensemble member is either ill, on vacation or understudying a supporting or lead role, their ensemble track must be covered by someone else. Here's how swings come into the game: Opposed to "normal" ensemble members, swings know several ensemble tracks (choreography, songs and spoken parts) and can perform in different ensemble tracks every night. Some of them also understudy one or more supporting or lead roles. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 7:33:40 GMT
In addition to that swings often—but not always—have no normal track of their own, so if every member of the company turns up for work the swings sit around backstage, probably contributing their vocals to ensemble numbers but not appearing on stage.
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Post by brenth on Jun 18, 2016 13:38:59 GMT
Thanks for this... I was never really sure about this. Thanks for asking James!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 13:46:35 GMT
If you jump on a train why don't u go flying backwards? Would this still be the case if u on top of a moving car and u jumped?
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Post by ShoesForRent on Jun 18, 2016 13:50:41 GMT
Also would like to add there are national/international swings (sometimes called international/ national covers)- if a show has multiple productions (such as Wicked B'way/ north American Tour/ London etc.) it is some people's jobs to cover tracks in all these productions, when there is a severe shortage/ an emergency need for a cover.
Wicked has several of these- sometimes actors are cast in another production (say an Elphaba u/s on tour got bumped to standby on Broadway) and must go fill that position immediately, there is a gap in the ensemble- since as an U/S she covered an ensemble track. since Wicked has so many productions this happens often, and so they have people who travel through the productions as necessary.
The most famous example I could think of is Jenny Dinoia who is an international Elphaba cover (she's not quite a swing, but that's the gist)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 13:51:43 GMT
Here's how swings come into the game: Opposed to "normal" ensemble members, swings know several ensemble tracks (choreography, songs and spoken parts) and can perform in different ensemble tracks every night. Some of them also understudy one or more supporting or lead roles. So, is there a career progression path from "normal" ensemble member, with just the one track to belt out night after night, to swing with a range of tracks learnt ready to belt out when required? Or is the path in the opposite direction, from swing to "normal"? And why? Or is it just that some performers prefer either the variety of being a swing or the routine of being a "normal"? Or are some performers much more flexible and more credible in a whole variety of ensemble roles? So many questions ... |
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Post by TheatreDust on Jun 18, 2016 14:11:38 GMT
probably contributing their vocals to ensemble numbers but not appearing on stage. I'm interested in knowing about this aspect. I'd understood that in most situations the swings were just in a dressing room backstage somewhere playing on an X box/watching a DVD etc. I didn't know that it was common practice for swings to support with vocals etc. I know that understudies get additional payments when they are actually on as their cover (understandably). Does a swing get a flat rate or get additional payments when they perform? (i.e. making their use in vocally supporting ensemble numbers as above a costed exercise). Maybe firefingers has info on the first? Do swings sometimes get mic'd up for this sort of vocal work. |
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Post by Steffi on Jun 18, 2016 14:11:46 GMT
There's no progression path from swing to ensemble or vice versa. Personally I think swings are the real stars of a show. To be able to jump into various tracks on short notice is admirable. I have the highest respect for swings.
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Post by ShoesForRent on Jun 18, 2016 14:20:47 GMT
There's no progression path from swing to ensemble or vice versa. Personally I think swings are the real stars of a show. To be able to jump into various tracks on short notice is admirable. I have the highest respect for swings. So do people audition to become swing- as in- is the audition specifically for the job of a swing? Or do actors audition for ensemble in general, and the standouts are later told they got the job of a swing? I know of several actors who went straight from school to become a swing in the W/E- I just wonder what the audition process for this is. |
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Post by theatremadness on Jun 18, 2016 14:29:10 GMT
There's no progression path from swing to ensemble or vice versa. Personally I think swings are the real stars of a show. To be able to jump into various tracks on short notice is admirable. I have the highest respect for swings. So do people audition to become swing- as in- is the audition specifically for the job of a swing? Or do actors audition for ensemble in general, and the standouts are later told they got the job of a swing? I know of several actors who went straight from school to become a swing in the W/E- I just wonder what the audition process for this is. Yes you can indeed audition specifically for a swing role - and most actors auditioning for these roles will know exactly what they entail. This is more common for longer running shows where they know exactly what they're looking for, they know exactly what each swing track does and what needs to be fulfilled in these tracks, and whether those who are currently in those tracks are leaving or staying on another year. For a brand new show auditioning, it can be a little more vague in the breakdown, maybe listed as 'MALE/FEMALE (Ensemble)' or something along those lines. This will most likely be because the panel themselves might not know exactly what they're looking to be fulfilled out of these roles that have yet to be created. There may be someone they like, or a recent graduate, but they don't quite fit into the jigsaw of the regular cast, so they will eventually offer them a swing track. Or sometimes it's because someone is so incredibly talented, skilled and - most importantly for a swing - reliable, that they can be trusted with taking on a swing track, most definitely the hardest job in the cast - hence why they are paid the most (out of ensemble/swings - probably leads are on the most). The process is, more often than not, long and nerve-wracking. First audition will most likely be "2 contrasting songs in the style of the show". A recall would be the next stage, where you may be asked to do material from the show you're auditioning for. Then various dance/movement calls, then what are known as "finals", and then offers may go out. I auditioned for Half A Sixpence at Chichester (didn't get it), but over the course of just over a month, I auditioned 6 times in total, my "finals" panel included the director, choreographer, Stiles & Drewe, Julian Fellowes, Cameron Mackintosh and his casting team. So still a great opportunity in itself. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 15:40:45 GMT
Personally I think swings are the real stars of a show. To be able to jump into various tracks on short notice is admirable. I have the highest respect for swings. That's how I feel. Any idiot can learn one role, and many do. To learn several, keep them separate, turn up for work often not knowing which one you'll be playing, and on occasion be able to switch roles in the middle of a show to cover a sudden illness or injury: that takes skill and experience. That's why I get annoyed at people who complain that they're "only getting the understudy", as if there's something inferior about a person who's trusted to be able to handle the extra work. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 16:02:21 GMT
If you jump on a train why don't u go flying backwards? Would this still be the case if u on top of a moving car and u jumped? Because when you jump on a train, you're not starting from a purely stationary position, you're already moving with the train. So although you feel like you're standing still and jumping straight up, the train's momentum means you continue to move forward, which contradictorily is why you seem to not change direction at all and land back on what feels like the same spot. Physicswise, this would theoretically be the same when standing on top of a moving car and jumping, but I honestly wouldn't advise it, as the top of a moving car is a dangerous place to be. This is also why jumping just before you hit the bottom if you're in a lift plummeting down a lift shaft wouldn't save you, but up and down rather than backwards and forwards. |
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Post by firefingers on Jun 18, 2016 21:50:20 GMT
probably contributing their vocals to ensemble numbers but not appearing on stage. I'm interested in knowing about this aspect. I'd understood that in most situations the swings were just in a dressing room backstage somewhere playing on an X box/watching a DVD etc. I didn't know that it was common practice for swings to support with vocals etc. I know that understudies get additional payments when they are actually on as their cover (understandably). Does a swing get a flat rate or get additional payments when they perform? (i.e. making their use in vocally supporting ensemble numbers as above a costed exercise). Maybe firefingers has info on the first? Do swings sometimes get mic'd up for this sort of vocal work. Thanks for tagging me. In my experience, swings aren't used to thicken vocals. I don't really know why,( union rules maybe, as if there was a separate track for them to do it would become a proper part), but with so much prerecorded music on shows (adding extra band and vocal parts), adding a single voice occasionally probably isn't worth the hassle. |
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Post by easilypleased on Jun 18, 2016 22:27:25 GMT
I do find this board rather intimidating from time to time. I want this to be a place to ask questions which might be obvious to some people but that are completely foreign to others A place to ask questions, where no one will judge you for not knowing, I hope. To start off: What are Swings? Great thread, thanks for starting it. In fact I almost asked a question that a lot of members would have found a hoot, which was that I noticed that all musicals seemed to have "books by..." and I was wondering where you get said books - Waterstones? Amazon? I couldn't find anything online, and I spent a lot of time looking, until the penny dropped... Anyway, my (hopefully more sensible) question is - how do shows stay on track and stay sharp during their run? Does the Director turn up now and again to do a check and provide feedback? And what do Associate Directors do? |
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Post by Jon on Jun 18, 2016 22:31:20 GMT
I do find this board rather intimidating from time to time. I want this to be a place to ask questions which might be obvious to some people but that are completely foreign to others A place to ask questions, where no one will judge you for not knowing, I hope. To start off: What are Swings? Great thread, thanks for starting it. In fact I almost asked a question that a lot of members would have found a hoot, which was that I noticed that all musicals seemed to have "books by..." and I was wondering where you get said books - Waterstones? Amazon? I couldn't find anything online, and I spent a lot of time looking, until the penny dropped... Anyway, my (hopefully more sensible) question is - how do shows stay on track and stay sharp during their run? Does the Director turn up now and again to do a check and provide feedback? And what do Associate Directors do? I think once a show is up and coming, a director or producer usually leaves things to the associate and resident director, occasionally checking up from time to time. I've heard the story of Cameron Mackintosh coming to see Les Miserables only to find it was such bad shape, he fired the cast and made everyone re audition. |
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Post by theatre-turtle on Jun 18, 2016 22:41:19 GMT
I'm interested in knowing about this aspect. I'd understood that in most situations the swings were just in a dressing room backstage somewhere playing on an X box/watching a DVD etc. I didn't know that it was common practice for swings to support with vocals etc. I know that understudies get additional payments when they are actually on as their cover (understandably). Does a swing get a flat rate or get additional payments when they perform? (i.e. making their use in vocally supporting ensemble numbers as above a costed exercise). Maybe firefingers has info on the first? Do swings sometimes get mic'd up for this sort of vocal work. Thanks for tagging me. In my experience, swings aren't used to thicken vocals. I don't really know why,( union rules maybe, as if there was a separate track for them to do it would become a proper part), but with so much prerecorded music on shows (adding extra band and vocal parts), adding a single voice occasionally probably isn't worth the hassle. Do shows use recorded vocals? I was under the impression that other than thing like Eponine's scream it was all live |
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Post by theatremadness on Jun 18, 2016 22:49:02 GMT
I do find this board rather intimidating from time to time. I want this to be a place to ask questions which might be obvious to some people but that are completely foreign to others A place to ask questions, where no one will judge you for not knowing, I hope. To start off: What are Swings? Great thread, thanks for starting it. In fact I almost asked a question that a lot of members would have found a hoot, which was that I noticed that all musicals seemed to have "books by..." and I was wondering where you get said books - Waterstones? Amazon? I couldn't find anything online, and I spent a lot of time looking, until the penny dropped... Anyway, my (hopefully more sensible) question is - how do shows stay on track and stay sharp during their run? Does the Director turn up now and again to do a check and provide feedback? And what do Associate Directors do? Once a show is up and running, then the original creative team will visit less and less. There will be a resident director of the show who will keep track of things but won't be there full time, but in my experience, a lot of it falls on the dance captain, someone who is also in the show - most likely an ensemble member. They will be in charge of warm ups before the show, making sure everyone and everything hits their mark, that the choreography is sharp, clean and precise and that the show is running as it should be. It's a rather thankless job as you have to be pretty ruthless and, as you're bound to make very good friends in the cast, you could be giving them a "telling off" the next day for some mistake, therefore a dance captain usually takes a lot of flack from the cast and sometimes because "the enemy". Makes it sound a lot more serious than it is, but people in shows love a good drama. A show report should be sent nightly to the relevant creative team, this details *anything* that happens during a show. Missed acting cues, missed lighting cues, missed sound queues, technical difficulties, mistakes in choreo, if someone doesn't bring on a prop - those sorts of little things. If something is deemed serious enough to need a higher authority than a member of the creative team will step in, otherwise they may visit the show occasionally and then pass on notes to the dance captain, but one hopes that shows run and smoothly and as similarly as possible on a day-to-day basis! |
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Post by theatremadness on Jun 18, 2016 22:55:16 GMT
Thanks for tagging me. In my experience, swings aren't used to thicken vocals. I don't really know why,( union rules maybe, as if there was a separate track for them to do it would become a proper part), but with so much prerecorded music on shows (adding extra band and vocal parts), adding a single voice occasionally probably isn't worth the hassle. Do shows use recorded vocals? I was under the impression that other than thing like Eponine's scream it was all live Some shows will use 'click tracks'. Basically pre-recorded vocals that are used on top of existing vocals, or in place of them. No idea for definite which shows use them, but they will be used most likely only during large, exhausting singing and dancing numbers in musicals. Think 'You Can't Stop The Beat' (which I think is affectionately coined as 'You Can't Stop To Breathe' by cast members since the original). They're never used to try and fool the audience, or so the cast on stage can 'take a break'. The cast will *always* be singing live whilst dancing, but some routines are so incredibly involved and energetic, that they need a boost ever so slightly and subtly in the background, so it doesn't sound a bit weak or out-of-breath. Musical actors are trained to sing & dance at the same time but are not super-human - despite what some choreographers may think!! Other instances include Phantom, for example. Christine's high-note at the end of the title number is on click-track, as are all the Phantom/Christine vocals in the title number from the beginning up until they appear in the boat. This is due to the staging, the different levels, appearing and re-appearing all over the place - that kind of stuff! |
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Post by firefingers on Jun 19, 2016 0:49:08 GMT
Do shows use recorded vocals? I was under the impression that other than thing like Eponine's scream it was all live Some shows will use 'click tracks'. Basically pre-recorded vocals that are used on top of existing vocals, or in place of them. No idea for definite which shows use them, but they will be used most likely only during large, exhausting singing and dancing numbers in musicals. Think 'You Can't Stop The Beat' (which I think is affectionately coined as 'You Can't Stop To Breathe' by cast members since the original). They're never used to try and fool the audience, or so the cast on stage can 'take a break'. The cast will *always* be singing live whilst dancing, but some routines are so incredibly involved and energetic, that they need a boost ever so slightly and subtly in the background, so it doesn't sound a bit weak or out-of-breath. Musical actors are trained to sing & dance at the same time but are not super-human - despite what some choreographers may think!! Other instances include Phantom, for example. Christine's high-note at the end of the title number is on click-track, as are all the Phantom/Christine vocals in the title number from the beginning up until they appear in the boat. This is due to the staging, the different levels, appearing and re-appearing all over the place - that kind of stuff! Click tracks often aren't just vocals, but often have extra band parts as well. But you are correct, you'd never have no vocal onstage, and you try to use more live vocal than recorded. You may have a trumpet solo when you don't have any brass instruments though, which I always feel is a cop out. Phantom is notorious for click track. Something like 48 minutes of it in the first act alone (and that was from the old technology days when click tracks were a pain to make and ran on mini disc players). Bill Kenwright tours are well known for cutting the band down to very small and shifting a lot onto click. Though some directors/producers go to great efforts to keep it live. I saw Book of Mormon and swore blind that the tap dancing was on the click track (other shows have done this) but was later informed it was all live, including in the blackout before the costume reveal in Turn It Off. But clicks are very useful as you it means things can be timed perfectly. Do you want say, on an exact beat of a number, to have a gun shot sfx, the lights to go to black, a pyrotechnic explosion and a load of smoke? Well if you have a click you can just set various bits of equipment to trigger at x number of seconds into the click track. Will look incredibly tight which increases the impact massively and no room for human error. EDIT: I feel I should mention my favourite bit of click track. The opening of We Will Rock You had Freddy Mercury's vocal on click track. I went on a training course which had several multitrack recordings of musicals to learning mixing techniques on and one of the shows was We Will Rock You, and this meant for a few minutes of my life I could choose how much Freddy Mercury I wanted. |
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Post by Jon on Jun 19, 2016 0:57:51 GMT
Didn't Cameron replace of the orchestra of Les Mis when it moved to the Queens with Sinfonia? I assume something like Mamma Mia! also uses click track as well
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2016 2:20:21 GMT
In my experience, swings aren't used to thicken vocals. I don't really know why,( union rules maybe, as if there was a separate track for them to do it would become a proper part), but with so much prerecorded music on shows (adding extra band and vocal parts), adding a single voice occasionally probably isn't worth the hassle. The times I've known it happen it was a matter of avoiding boredom and getting a bit of extra practice in rather than anything so formal as having a track for it. I did once know of someone who became pregnant during a show* and for several months she switched to a specific function of providing off-stage vocal support. I don't know how common that is. * Or at home between shows, I presume. |
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Post by ShoesForRent on Jun 19, 2016 5:47:31 GMT
Other instances include Phantom, for example. Christine's high-note at the end of the title number is on click-track, as are all the Phantom/Christine vocals in the title number from the beginning up until they appear in the boat. This is due to the staging, the different levels, appearing and re-appearing all over the place - that kind of stuff! I think all of the title song is pre-recorded, including the boat- i read the motor of it makes so much noise, if they were to sing it live the mics would catch the noise. Also fun fact- when singing the title song of Phantom in random performances (such as West End Live/ Oliviers etc.) the last note Christine sings (an E6) is always pre-recorded. The only time i think it wasn't is when Sierra sang with John Owen-Jones, and even then I can't tell for certain. I guess they don't trust the actress to be able to hit, and sustain it the way it's it's written, properly (that cadenza is quite tricky though). (Though Christine only does 6 shows, but Carlotta hits that E6 live every night- 8 shows a week.. Cheeky  ) |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 19, 2016 6:24:14 GMT
Just listening to this weeks Inside The West End podcast which is an interview with Summer Strallen. She was describing how her first ever job out of stage school was as a swing in Cats and how rubbish she was at it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2016 10:12:28 GMT
Other instances include Phantom, for example. Christine's high-note at the end of the title number is on click-track, as are all the Phantom/Christine vocals in the title number from the beginning up until they appear in the boat. This is due to the staging, the different levels, appearing and re-appearing all over the place - that kind of stuff! I think all of the title song is pre-recorded, including the boat- i read the motor of it makes so much noise, if they were to sing it live the mics would catch the noise. Also fun fact- when singing the title song of Phantom in random performances (such as West End Live/ Oliviers etc.) the last note Christine sings (an E6) is always pre-recorded. The only time i think it wasn't is when Sierra sang with John Owen-Jones, and even then I can't tell for certain. I guess they don't trust the actress to be able to hit, and sustain it the way it's it's written, properly (that cadenza is quite tricky though). (Though Christine only does 6 shows, but Carlotta hits that E6 live every night- 8 shows a week.. Cheeky ) I don't think this is correct. I think it was only Sarah Brightman that ever sang it live at Her Majesty's. |
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