1,432 posts
|
Post by BVM on Sept 30, 2023 6:46:02 GMT
Some of the obsessive negativity on this thread is depressing. This version of SB is clearly a polarising production that triggers some folk. Agreed. Obsessive negativity is the word! Though funny thing is the production isn’t even that polarising. Looking at the one person one vote poll, 5 stars is SO far in front. But in 2nd place by quite some way is 3! So forum’s overall opinion is amazing with a dash of middling. It’s the weird phenomenon of the haters being very loud. The most frequent poster of course, not even having seen it. Odd! |
|
|
|
Post by eoghan31 on Sept 30, 2023 7:03:24 GMT
Couldn’t agree more with Obi’s post. No denying the performances and some of the technical wonders of the production but whilst less is often more the production suffers from being too minimalistic. References like Mad about the Boy are lost. It assumes you have seen the musical before so that you can place the significance of this. I’m not sure As if We Never Said Goodbye quite achieved what it should have been capable of achieving as it missed the creation of the movie set whilst With One Look was thrilling with prolonged applause and cheers. A production which may well divide opinions but glad to have seen it but will cherish more the memories of past full productions.
|
|
19,752 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 30, 2023 7:05:57 GMT
Could NS have pulled off a traditional Norma?
|
|
|
|
Post by sukhavati on Sept 30, 2023 7:21:31 GMT
I think the problem that I have with the idea of this production is contemporary dress for what is supposed to be a 1950s story about a woman whose heyday was in the 1920s. Visual disconnect. I saw the original in previews, and of course it was conceived as a mega-musical with the two level interior of Norma's mansion receiving a huge round of applause as it glided forward from the upstage shadows. Norma's return to Paramount in that massive old limo also got a huge hand. This is clearly not your Mother's Sunset. If the singing and performances are good, that's in its favour, but with missing props and so much emphasis on the screens I can understand why it's polarizing opinion. Minimalism for its own sake doesn't necessarily serve the material, especially when one thinks of the excesses of peak studio system, and how the studio's publicity departments wanted the public to believe that their stars lived like royalty. That was part of Norma's tragedy, how she was essentially living in a house that was frozen in time from the apex of her career. Max's deception in sending fan mail and encouraging her to believe a revived career was possible. The baroque sets by John Napier really contributed to the idea that she was living in a mausoleum, living in the past. And the blood at the end now - is that really necessary? Granted we had Joe's body "floating" in the pool at the beginning of the OP. Ah well. I'm not convinced yet...
|
|
1,432 posts
|
Post by BVM on Sept 30, 2023 7:24:05 GMT
Could NS have pulled off a traditional Norma? Hard to say. Possibly not but she’s full of surprises so who knows 🤷🏻♂️ Although more pressing question now I reckon is what kind of Norma Rachel Tucker will pull off! Scherzy’s Norma is hugely shaped by Lloyd. But with a massive injection of previous Scherzy too. |
|
3,475 posts
|
Post by ceebee on Sept 30, 2023 7:24:50 GMT
Couldn’t agree more with Obi’s post. No denying the performances and some of the technical wonders of the production but whilst less is often more the production suffers from being too minimalistic. References like Mad about the Boy are lost. It assumes you have seen the musical before so that you can place the significance of this. I’m not sure As if We Never Said Goodbye quite achieved what it should have been capable of achieving as it missed the creation of the movie set whilst With One Look was thrilling with prolonged applause and cheers. A production which may well divide opinions but glad to have seen it but will cherish more the memories of past full productions. "Mad About The Boy" was written in lipstick on the mirror in NS dressing room during the second half opener last night and she was stood in front of the mirror touching it whilst wearing a turban. The references are in there, people just need to look more closely. These little easter eggs are planted throughout the show in obvious and less obvious ways. My brother saw this last night with me and he is not particularly good at "filling the gaps", but his comments afterwards were: "That was f***ing incredible - I loved the way it makes you have to pay attention and fill some of the gaps for yourself because it is so abstract and minimal." He has never seen or heard Sunset Boulevard before last night but said he had the music stuck in his head and thought it was an amazing story. To me, this epitomises this production. While some people seem to want a modernised replication of their memories, this is a new production for a new audience. My brother isn't switched on when it comes to joining the dots of sub-narratives and plotlines, yet he felt last night's show was one of the greatest things he has seen and was able to recount the story in great detail and give opinions on the psychological state of Norma. For me, that says this show works on a number of levels - beyond pure entertainment, it is getting people thinking and talking about the characters, incidentally with a beautiful note-perfect lead instead of an archetypal Norma who is old enough to be yer granny. |
|
3,475 posts
|
Post by ceebee on Sept 30, 2023 7:28:08 GMT
Could NS have pulled off a traditional Norma? She has pulled off a modern Norma in the context of a 1950s story. I think that is much more exciting than seeing somebody in the vein of Glenn Close or Elaine Paige trot out more of the same, just because a few folk demand a staircase and a turban. (Incidentally, there is a staircase when Joe goes for his wander up past the Coal Hole and the turban makes a fleeting appearance, so the traditionalists are hardly short changed. They even get real cars on the Strand and flashy ones out the front of the Savoy. Then even more gratutitous staircase as Joe descends into the sweaty bowels of the Savoy Theatre.) |
|
|
|
Post by A.Ham on Sept 30, 2023 7:47:45 GMT
For anybody who saw earlier previews, the opening credit sequence in the car scene that had the "Sunset Blvd" wording and the names of the leads, director etc appears to have been removed. Shame as I loved that sequence. They're definitely tinkering and testing ideas. Disappointing to hear they’ve cut that title sequence - I thought that was great when I saw it on Thursday night, a really simple but clever idea. And yes, can also confirm the screen was sharp and clear, no pixels even up close. |
|
3,475 posts
|
Post by ceebee on Sept 30, 2023 8:10:12 GMT
For anybody who saw earlier previews, the opening credit sequence in the car scene that had the "Sunset Blvd" wording and the names of the leads, director etc appears to have been removed. Shame as I loved that sequence. They're definitely tinkering and testing ideas. Disappointing to hear they’ve cut that title sequence - I thought that was great when I saw it on Thursday night, a really simple but clever idea. And yes, can also confirm the screen was sharp and clear, no pixels even up close. I wonder if it was a technical glitch in mixing it as it makes no sense to drop it. That title sequence really worked for me first time round. |
|
365 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by ruthieh on Sept 30, 2023 8:13:39 GMT
NS on R2 with Dermot O’Leary now
|
|
3,475 posts
|
Post by ceebee on Sept 30, 2023 8:48:29 GMT
Some tasty matinee deals on tkts today if anybody is interested. Great stalls/dress seats.
|
|
460 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by pianowithsam on Sept 30, 2023 10:25:18 GMT
Has anyone won the lottery for this yet? How easy was it and where were the seats?
|
|
292 posts
|
Post by kyvai on Sept 30, 2023 11:06:19 GMT
Does anyone know if they sell day seats? And if so, for how much? TKTS on-the-day seems have a handful the last few days, around £20-40 less than their full price I think. |
|
1,482 posts
|
Post by mkb on Sept 30, 2023 11:11:53 GMT
For anybody who saw earlier previews, the opening credit sequence in the car scene that had the "Sunset Blvd" wording and the names of the leads, director etc appears to have been removed. That is bizarre. That's one of the few choices that worked in my view, although, in keeping with the conventions of that movie period, it should have been at the top of the show, not after a prologue, and they should have used technical wizardry to make it look like 35mm celluloid, not hi-res, dynamically bright video. |
|
8,144 posts
|
Post by alece10 on Sept 30, 2023 11:35:04 GMT
For anybody who saw earlier previews, the opening credit sequence in the car scene that had the "Sunset Blvd" wording and the names of the leads, director etc appears to have been removed. Shame as I loved that sequence. They're definitely tinkering and testing ideas. Tonight's show was excellent - though again, a few people left at the interval. For the second half opener, it was different to last time, plus obvious security marshalling on the Strand which was pretty busy. What a show this is - the second half really is one of the most fantastic pieces of theatre. Also, Ben Joyce / Amber Davies were in watching tonight. Thats a shame as I thought it was really effective. Hopefully someone from the show reads this thread and tells Mr Lloyd to put it back as we have decided it needs to go back in. Afterall we are the experts  |
|
|
|
Post by 141920grm on Sept 30, 2023 12:14:38 GMT
Hopefully it could've been just that one performance where the sequence hadn't played properly/in time? My second visit, the live footage of Max wasn't relayed at all to the screen and the light panels on his cameraman's rig were off, so the 2 of them just meandered around in the dark at the back for a long while.
Downside to such a minimalist and tech-reliant staging, if the tech goes wrong, half (or even more) the magic's gone, as this is so reliant on the contrast between the stark, everyone-downstage scenes, and the simultaneously in-your-face and looming live video backdrop.
Agree with the rest the credit sequence was one of the best moments/most inspired use of the screen, its placement was fantastic too and sets the scene.
|
|
|
|
Post by doornumberthree on Sept 30, 2023 12:54:32 GMT
I’m hoping the title sequence was a glitch and isn’t removed, I loved it
|
|
|
|
Post by Oobi on Sept 30, 2023 14:58:28 GMT
"Mad About The Boy" was written in lipstick on the mirror in NS dressing room during the second half opener I saw that too, but it's not nearly enough. Even if I accept new audience members will be able to remember the lipstick message, the line has lost all of its narrative significance. There's no diegetic reason for Norma to be wailing it in her monologue of madness. "Silent music starts to play" - ah, yes, that's from her big solo. "If you're with me, next year will be" - ah, yes, that's from the New Year's party. "They bring in his head in a silver tray" - ah, yes, that's from her Salome script. "MAD ABOUT THE BOY!!!" - uh... that's a random phrase written on a mirror in the interval? You can't just leave in a payoff while cutting the setup. That's as close to an objective screwup as it's possible to get when retooling a show. |
|
|
|
Post by A.Ham on Sept 30, 2023 15:53:09 GMT
Having read back through the posts I missed whilst avoiding this thread, I do have to wonder if there are some 'gaps' in the plot/scripting of this new version that would make things confusing for someone who's new to Sunset?
I saw the Glenn Close Coliseum production and have watched the film, so 'got' most of the points that are just hinted at, skipped past or not shown physically (due to lack of props) in this production, so didn't have any trouble picking up on these subtleties or following the storyline - but I do think it's quite possible that someone unfamiliar with the piece may struggle.
|
|
8,144 posts
|
Post by alece10 on Sept 30, 2023 16:06:28 GMT
There will be people, myself included, who go to see musicals to enjoy the music and spectacle without understanding every single thing about the story and plot.
I've seen many musicals where I have come out at the end and not really understood what I have been watching but still enjoyed it immensely. Not everyone needs to delve into the subject matter too deeply to enjoy it.
So I don't think small parts of the original missing or not being explained would have much effect on most people who are seeing the musical for the first time.
|
|
311 posts
|
Post by jm25 on Sept 30, 2023 16:07:43 GMT
For what it's worth, I went in having heard only a couple of the songs and having read about 2/3 of the plot on Wikipedia a few months ago when I booked it, and that was the extent of my prior knowledge. I'm seeing the show twice so figured that it would be good to use the first viewing to watch it totally blind.
I had zero difficulty following what was going on. Were bits missed out that were included in previous productions? Yep. Were there Easter eggs and nods to previous versions that I missed out on? I'm guessing so. Did it make any difference? Nope.
I think it's a case of not being able to miss what you never had. I was quite happy watching and enjoying this production for what it was, not with a view to comparing it to previous ones. But I can understand why those more familiar with the show may not have liked all the changes.
|
|
|
|
Post by A.Ham on Sept 30, 2023 16:09:01 GMT
Yes, that’s a good point alece10. I love Hamilton but would be lying if I claimed to have grasped every detail so I know what you mean!
|
|
|
|
Post by intoanewlife on Sept 30, 2023 18:34:04 GMT
Hopefully it could've been just that one performance where the sequence hadn't played properly/in time? My second visit, the live footage of Max wasn't relayed at all to the screen and the light panels on his cameraman's rig were off, so the 2 of them just meandered around in the dark at the back for a long while. Downside to such a minimalist and tech-reliant staging, if the tech goes wrong, half (or even more) the magic's gone, as this is so reliant on the contrast between the stark, everyone-downstage scenes, and the simultaneously in-your-face and looming live video backdrop. Agree with the rest the credit sequence was one of the best moments/most inspired use of the screen, its placement was fantastic too and sets the scene. Sounds like when I saw Curious/Dog and he spent the whole first half of the show building that train set and at the end of Act 1 the train went about 2 feet and fell off the track... |
|
8,144 posts
|
Post by alece10 on Sept 30, 2023 18:58:05 GMT
Just realised we haven't given enough credit to the camera operator for the Act 2 opening number. Whoever it is they are dammed talented.
|
|
|
|
Post by topaz on Sept 30, 2023 18:58:19 GMT
I thought this was really, really thrilling - it’s not perfect, but I didn’t mind terribly about the parts that didn’t work and the (key) parts that did were wonderful. And the title sequence over the car chase was back at the matinee today.
|
|
