Starlight Express - Troubadour

[luvvie23]

If the show does go in 24, then it would have to be September onwards as if I remember rightly-skate school- is a huge part of the rehearsal process. And if we are going with trendy SIX stars and & Juliet alumni, maybe not all of them are ballerina skaters. Just saying 🤓

[BVM]

Aug 31, 2023 12:09:34 GMT luvvie23 said:

If the show does go in 24, then it would have to be September onwards as if I remember rightly-skate school- is a huge part of the rehearsal process. And if we are going with trendy SIX stars and & Juliet alumni, maybe not all of them are ballerina skaters. Just saying 🤓

Skate school is usually 6 weeks! They also have a strong history of bringing back people who have done the show before (in fact in the initial casting ad for the last tour they only wanted prev cast in the first instance). Though if rumours of this being an entirely new production are true, guess that might not be the case here.

God, I think I’d rather it had a short and respectable run for the nostalgia audience if the alternative is bringing in the fan girl chaos/circus that engulfs &Juliet and Six.

Mid show standing ovation for a sassy one liner?! “YAAAAS KWEEN” shouting when Electra overtakes Manga mid race?! No thanks.

(My deepest fear of course is that this is exactly what will happen. Coupled with out of town venue, non trad theatre (FWIW), theme park atmosphere, alcohol and sugar - audience behaviour could be off the chart!)

#Pray4Starlight

[mrbarnaby]

Aug 31, 2023 12:09:34 GMT luvvie23 said:

If the show does go in 24, then it would have to be September onwards as if I remember rightly-skate school- is a huge part of the rehearsal process. And if we are going with trendy SIX stars and & Juliet alumni, maybe not all of them are ballerina skaters. Just saying 🤓

It’s opening Spring 24.

[Someone in a tree]

@bvm we know ALW will rewrite it to uncomfortably 'fit' to the Heather's market. I expect the audience to feature heavily in the bad behaviour thread

[BVM]

Aug 31, 2023 17:13:08 GMT Someone in a tree said:

@bvm we know ALW will rewrite it to uncomfortably 'fit' to the Heather's market. I expect the audience to feature heavily in the bad behaviour thread

I can't bear it lol *facepalm emoji* !!

Thank God CHF remains persona non grata. 

(Though I'd happily see JLG as Rusty lol).

[Someone in a tree]

Resty Lee? ...

[c4ndyc4ne]

Aug 31, 2023 17:13:08 GMT Someone in a tree said:

@bvm we know ALW will rewrite it to uncomfortably 'fit' to the Heather's market. I expect the audience to feature heavily in the bad behaviour thread

Are the heathers (ie younger) crowd typically badly behaved? I’ve often seen far worse behaviour from older crowds / jukebox shows rather than Heathers…

[max]

The show is very loud (or should be), and sung through; plus it contains sporting races that require getting behind your chosen player. I'd expect people to shout out, and most of the time they'll be drowned out. Nothing to worry about.

However annoying they may be in ostentatiously showing off their love of the show, the 'Heathers' and '& Juliet' devotees are rather different to those who screech along at The Bodyguard. They love their show, so I don't see why they'd ruin the (rare) quiet and reflective bits.

As for rewrites to meet the younger audience, he's already put in 'I've Got Me' which is pretty good, and gives the female characters some camaraderie and sense of self.  Doesn't feel particularly forced. 

[intoanewlife]

Aug 31, 2023 20:00:18 GMT max said:

the 'Heathers' and '& Juliet' devotees are rather different to those who screech along at The Bodyguard. They love their show, so I don't see why they'd ruin the (rare) quiet and reflective bits.

Exactly. Am a bit tired of the constant ragging of younger fans here and yet I have not once ever seen a younger person ever behave badly at anything.

I have seen Six countless times and not seen a single second of bad behaviour before, during or after the show.

I think the only bad behaviour I have even seen at any of these 'teen' friendly shows was at Mean Girls and that was by the parents!

[theatreliker]

I'm surprised Curve aren't doing this. When they reopened after Covid the two auditoria were completely reconfigured into one in the round space. You could put a track in round there.

[toomasj]

Whereas I have experienced shows being frankly ruined by overly excitable/rowdy superfans determined to draw focus onto themselves. This has happened several times at Wicked, once when I was unknowingly seeing a cast change performance. Leaving the theatre with arms full of gifts (presumably for the performers) rushing to the stage door, talking about whether “he noticed me”. Literal banshee screaming over the end of “Defying Gravity” and “The Wizard and I”. Very conspicuous and over the top fake laughter when “their” performer has a comic line they’ve heard hundreds of times before. It’s incredibly distracting. Oh and they were in the front few rows, obviously.

I’ve witnessed similar behaviour at Heathers.

There is a special kind of entitlement from a very niche collection of hardcore fans of certain shows popular with younger audiences, who feel they are special or more worthy of enjoying the show than everyone else. They are possessive of it. When Kerry Ellis was in Wicked, I was in the day seat queue and saw some jaw dropping behaviour.

No love or money would get me to attend a performance of “Six” or similar teen-targeted shows as I have personally experienced first hand how appalling that “certain kind” of audience can be. “Yaaaas queen” indeed.

I’ve also seen appalling behaviour from adult audiences at loads of shows, drunkenness, mobile phones etc - but for me nothing quite ruins an evening than it being turned into an impromptu teeny bopper pop concert against the will of 95% of the audience.

[FairyGodmother]

The character has always read nonbinary anyway.

Non-binary AND bisexual, two for the price of one!

When aiming for the teenage girl crowd, ALW wrote some nice music (not his best, but mostly inoffensive with some lovely bits). I think quite a bit of the blame actually needs to lie with Emerald Fennel — the book could have done so much more!

[intoanewlife]

Aug 31, 2023 22:27:11 GMT toomasj said:

No love or money would get me to attend a performance of “Six” or similar teen-targeted shows as I have personally experienced first hand how appalling that “certain kind” of audience can be. “Yaaaas queen” indeed.

Well I've seen it 14 times and never seen anything like what you've mentioned, in fact I don't think I have ever seen what you're talking about.

Going again on the 8th, so I'll keep you posted as I have probably just jinxed myself

[bobbievanhusen]

I'm guessing its a generational thing. For me, watching a show means sitting quietly and applauding after each song, possibly a standing O at the end if it deserved it. Some younger folk these days go to a show to scream before the song has finished, or make some noise in the middle of big belt moment, like they did on American Idol back in the day, which has definitely carried over into the UK. Some people these days want everyone to know that they know the show really well, because they have been so many times and its about drawing attention to themselves, rather than the show. There is a sense of entitlement because THEY are the real fans, in their minds at least.

I would love them to do the original version of Starlight, but you know someone somewhere will have an issue with 'He whistled at me'
And bring CB back to the villain he was before.

[BVM]

I guess like all these things it's nuanced.

I certainly don't see any merit in young people vs old people for bad audience behaviour comparisons/competitions.

Much like the proverbial football hooligans I don't doubt that most people (of all ages) are fine - but it only takes a few to dent an experience.

Most young people are perfectly well behaved I feel sure. (And don't even get me started on kids being totally immersed and quiet and parents interrupting them to ask things and shove sugar in their faces - seen many times at Frozen!) But some, at certain shows, most def do exhibit the classic fangirl behaviour described. Whooping, screaming, stage door antics, hysterical laughing ahead of the line, competitive fandom etc etc etc. Seen Six twice and was like that both times - literally felt like I didn't belong there. The Heathers ones are notorious for antics (also experienced the one time I went - although it didn't bother me much as thought was a terrible musical anyway and it was in the glorious (call me antisocial!) socially distanced seating era). And most of us have experienced the Wicked nuttiness.

But yes, I don't doubt for a second that most are well behaved. But like you only need 2ish% of audience to be misbehaving hen dos to ruin The Bodyguard, the same is true of the fangirls.

Completely agree that watching a show, at any age, should mean watching it sat in your seat without causing a disturbance and letting yourself be fully immersed. What could be better than literally forgetting the audience is there because you are SO connected with what's on stage?

As for ALW being desperate to be "down with the kids" this is massively overstated. He wrote one musical (School of Rock) which WAS a surprise hit with all generations after a string of less successful stuff. So it's hardly surprising that he'd try to do another show with cross age appeal. His involvement in the book is greater or lesser for all shows. Evita was totally driven by Tim Rice, Beautiful Game by Ben Elton. And people seem to forget that Cinderella was like this. The book (at least for London) was 100% Emerald Fennell's. I know his face was EVERYWHERE when it came to promoting the show (helped of course by Covid chaos) but his creative involvement was writing the music for Emerald's book. And with her credentials and her age why would be not, at his age, trust that she had written a decent story? If people didn't like the story (I did FWIW) then fair enough. But this needs to be taken to Emerald's door, not ALW's.

That said, Starlight was always a show for all generations so I remain worried as to what they might do to appeal to youth today. Well, maybe worried is the wrong word. Inquisitive/curious/mildly concerned. Then again I think things can't stand still and I'd be a hypocrite to praise Lloyd's Evita and Sheffield Saigon so much and not be open to a new version of Starlight. And Heaven knows Starlight fans such as myself are used to change!

[danb]

“As for ALW being desperate to be "down with the kids" this is massively overstated. He wrote one musical (School of Rock) which WAS a surprise hit with all generations after a string of less successful stuff. So it's hardly surprising that he'd try to do another show with cross age appeal. His involvement in the book is greater or lesser for all shows. Evita was totally driven by Tim Rice, Beautiful Game by Ben Elton. And people seem to forget that Cinderella was like this. The book (at least for London) was 100% Emerald Fennell's. I know his face was EVERYWHERE when it came to promoting the show (helped of course by Covid chaos) but his creative involvement was writing the music for Emerald's book. And with her credentials and her age why would be not, at his age, trust that she had written a decent story? If people didn't like the story (I did FWIW) then fair enough. But this needs to be taken to Emerald's door, not ALW's”


Really? Didn’t you see any of his cringeworthy tv spots before ‘Cinderella’ announcing Carrie as if she were the next ‘Tamagotchi’ or the cool-lest new trainers? Same for Emerald who was hot off her Oscar win? He was desperate for the reflected glory that these two modern young women’s fan bases would bring to his show. Regardless of his level of involvement in the book, his perception of it told us that he thought it was the bees knees.

[BVM]

Sept 1, 2023 7:40:43 GMT danb said:

“As for ALW being desperate to be "down with the kids" this is massively overstated. He wrote one musical (School of Rock) which WAS a surprise hit with all generations after a string of less successful stuff. So it's hardly surprising that he'd try to do another show with cross age appeal. His involvement in the book is greater or lesser for all shows. Evita was totally driven by Tim Rice, Beautiful Game by Ben Elton. And people seem to forget that Cinderella was like this. The book (at least for London) was 100% Emerald Fennell's. I know his face was EVERYWHERE when it came to promoting the show (helped of course by Covid chaos) but his creative involvement was writing the music for Emerald's book. And with her credentials and her age why would be not, at his age, trust that she had written a decent story? If people didn't like the story (I did FWIW) then fair enough. But this needs to be taken to Emerald's door, not ALW's”


Really? Didn’t you see any of his cringeworthy tv spots before ‘Cinderella’ announcing Carrie as if she were the next ‘Tamagotchi’ or the cool-lest new trainers? Same for Emerald who was hot off her Oscar win? He was desperate for the reflected glory that these two modern young women’s fan bases would bring to his show. Regardless of his level of involvement in the book, his perception of it told us that he thought it was the bees knees.

Yeah course he did - he had 100% confidence in her book. 

Not much point being in that industry unless you have total confidence in what you write. He's hardly gonna go on telly and say "well it's probs a bit s*** but come and see it if you want!"

He said that line about Carrie once and as is the risk for anyone in the spotlight it got repeated ad infinitum. 

The Phantom DJ-ing and TikTock stuff was cringe but who doesn't have a father or grandfather that's embarrassed them? And Heaven knows everyone's mind was affected to some degree by the coronavirus. 

[danb]

Did he even read her book before signing off on it? It would have been clear to anyone with even an ounce of cultural awareness how naff and outdated it was?

[FairyGodmother]

ALW always gets very enthusiastic about his new projects, and new stars.

[Someone in a tree]

Sept 1, 2023 8:05:07 GMT FairyGodmother said:

ALW always gets very enthusiastic about his new projects, and new stars.

And adapting the material to seamlessly 'fit' with the Heather's, Six, Harry Potter, Strictly, Drag race,LGBTQQIP2SAA and Daily Mail fanbase ...

[mrbarnaby]

Sept 1, 2023 8:05:07 GMT FairyGodmother said:

ALW always gets very enthusiastic about his new projects, and new stars.

And then swiftly dumps them when his show flops. Likewise the creatives.

[BVM]

Sept 1, 2023 10:17:05 GMT mrbarnaby said:

Sept 1, 2023 8:05:07 GMT FairyGodmother said:

ALW always gets very enthusiastic about his new projects, and new stars.

And then swiftly dumps them when his show flops. Likewise the creatives.

Oh come off it. CHF dumped herself.

He dumped Patti. That’s it. Anything else is in the routine cut and thrust of casting - same across all shows.
Creatives wise. Jack O’Brien I suppose. Can’t think of another creative that was dumped mid run.

He KEPT all the creatives (apart from Emerald - but that was her decision) for Bad Cinderella. And everyone criticised that. Talk about can’t win. At no point did he blame any of them for its lack of success.

He’s worked with loads of people repeatedly. The number that have been “dumped” (hard to define) really not out of line with anyone else working in the industry for 60 years.

[max]

Sept 1, 2023 8:24:20 GMT Someone in a tree said:

Sept 1, 2023 8:05:07 GMT FairyGodmother said:

ALW always gets very enthusiastic about his new projects, and new stars.

And adapting the material to seamlessly 'fit' with the Heather's, Six, Harry Potter, Strictly, Drag race,LGBTQQIP2SAA and Daily Mail fanbase ...

I don't see how aligning with Six, Strictly, and Drag Race computes with the Daily Mail.  The Daily Mail who howled about 'Go woke, go broke' over the comparative failure of 'Cinderella' and other shows.  Just don't tell The Mail that, without fuss or fanfare, ALW's 'Wizard Of Oz' in the Curve production has a Black central family on the Palladium stage.  When does that ever happen in a musical that doesn't revolve around a story set in the music industry or a gospel church?

Only trying to make 'Rum Tum Tugger' more 'street' fits your theory that updating is forced.  Elsewhere he had the most ridiculously improbable number 1 hit record with 'Don't Cry For Me, Argentina', and previously the JCS album did nothing much in the UK but (I think) beat The Beatles 'Sgt Pepper's' sales (from 3 years before) in the USA.  Yet when trying to write hits for 'Starlight Express' none of them charted.  It's been a crazily mixed relationship with popular culture, but the only musical theatre composer to consistently have hit records - no less than 5 songs from 'Evita' hitting the UK Top 40.  

[danb]

Look what happens when Cinderella gets dragged up again! At each others throats, the blind get blinder and history gets rewritten. I shall just observe until we get back to ‘Starlight Express’.

[Someone in a tree]

Sept 1, 2023 13:05:29 GMT max said:

Sept 1, 2023 8:24:20 GMT Someone in a tree said:

And adapting the material to seamlessly 'fit' with the Heather's, Six, Harry Potter, Strictly, Drag race,LGBTQQIP2SAA and Daily Mail fanbase ...

I don't see how aligning with Six, Strictly, and Drag Race computes with the Daily Mail.  The Daily Mail who howled about 'Go woke, go broke' over the comparative failure of 'Cinderella' and other shows.  Just don't tell The Mail that, without fuss or fanfare, ALW's 'Wizard Of Oz' in the Curve production has a Black central family on the Palladium stage.  When does that ever happen in a musical that doesn't revolve around a story set in the music industry or a gospel church?

Only trying to make 'Rum Tum Tugger' more 'street' fits your theory that updating is forced.  Elsewhere he had the most ridiculously improbable number 1 hit record with 'Don't Cry For Me, Argentina', and previously the JCS album did nothing much in the UK but (I think) beat The Beatles 'Sgt Pepper's' sales (from 3 years before) in the USA.  Yet when trying to write hits for 'Starlight Express' none of them charted.  It's been a crazily mixed relationship with popular culture, but the only musical theatre composer to consistently have hit records - no less than 5 songs from 'Evita' hitting the UK Top 40.  

I was trying to use sarcasm to demonstrate how AlW bends with the wind