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Post by chameleon1 on Mar 23, 2023 7:20:02 GMT
that's a failure of the theatre. a really good play will end up selling well through word of mouth. the royal court's failure over the past 10 years hasn't been because they've embraced diversity, but because they appear to have no interest at all in the 'craft' of playwriting, or in supporting playwrights in producing the best version of their play. at a guess, they've wrongly identified good writing with conservatively structured 'well made' plays.. and thrown out the baby with the bathwater.. Well, I tend to agree that broadly speaking the current trends in fringe theatre are a certain type of play which may not sell particularly well somewhere like the RC, and plays that as a whole I'm not particularly interested in seeing personally (as others have said, quite didactic and lacking in more traditional theatrical structures) which is why I think a mixture of established names and new talent would be the most beneficial way to spread out a season. But when previous seasons were announced with established names, the debate always rages about RC in particular not meeting its remit, that fringe artists 'can't even get a look in/a meeting' and calls for this exact this type of show - so why aren't those same people booking these up when they're announced? If the complaint at the time is that the RC should be more radical in its programming, braver about who is produced, and not about the actual plays, then personally I think those same people should be putting their money where their mouth is and booking as soon as it's announced, rather than waiting for the reviews or word of mouth, otherwise their argument falls apart. 'They should be commissioning a certain type of play, but I won't go and see it and it won't sell well.' How does that help?.....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Not sure why this quote failed, but response below: ............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................. I think you're perhaps mixing up two different questions here - whether the RC are producing more 'established' names or new talent - and whether the playwriting itself is any good; ie whether it has tension, complexity, economy etc - and whether the playwright is intentional in their decisions about narrative and character and structure and style, and uses those decisions effectively to tell the story they want to tell, even if they're not writing a naturalistic, linear play. Recent plays by 'established' writers at the RC have been just as shaky as those by 'new talent' - so I suspect the issue here is that writing good plays is just really hard - and even 'established' playwrights can benefit from knowledgeable, perceptive, open-minded dramaturgical support - which just hasn't been present in the building, for the past few years. |
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Post by wiggymess on Mar 23, 2023 10:54:45 GMT
Well, I tend to agree that broadly speaking the current trends in fringe theatre are a certain type of play which may not sell particularly well somewhere like the RC, and plays that as a whole I'm not particularly interested in seeing personally (as others have said, quite didactic and lacking in more traditional theatrical structures) which is why I think a mixture of established names and new talent would be the most beneficial way to spread out a season. But when previous seasons were announced with established names, the debate always rages about RC in particular not meeting its remit, that fringe artists 'can't even get a look in/a meeting' and calls for this exact this type of show - so why aren't those same people booking these up when they're announced? If the complaint at the time is that the RC should be more radical in its programming, braver about who is produced, and not about the actual plays, then personally I think those same people should be putting their money where their mouth is and booking as soon as it's announced, rather than waiting for the reviews or word of mouth, otherwise their argument falls apart. 'They should be commissioning a certain type of play, but I won't go and see it and it won't sell well.' How does that help?.....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Not sure why this quote failed, but response below: ............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................. I think you're perhaps mixing up two different questions here - whether the RC are producing more 'established' names or new talent - and whether the playwriting itself is any good; ie whether it has tension, complexity, economy etc - and whether the playwright is intentional in their decisions about narrative and character and structure and style, and uses those decisions effectively to tell the story they want to tell, even if they're not writing a naturalistic, linear play. Recent plays by 'established' writers at the RC have been just as shaky as those by 'new talent' - so I suspect the issue here is that writing good plays is just really hard - and even 'established' playwrights can benefit from knowledgeable, perceptive, open-minded dramaturgical support - which just hasn't been present in the building, for the past few years. It's more that I'm trying to separate the two. As has been said above, there is a lot of demanding that the RC produces a certain type of season, but very little actual support when those plays are announced (prior to anyone having seen or reviewed the show, which is why I'm saying this is separate to whether the show is actually any good). On the point of the actual quality of the theatre produced, it seems strange that there are complaints that fringe artists are bringing fringe shows in, when fringe shows & artists were demanded. Also agree that some recent plays (with a fair few personal exceptions) by more established artists haven't been up to the usual RC standard, but they have sold better. Is that simply because those who ask for established/recognisable/(fairly) reliable names are more likely to put their money where their mouth is than the people who demand a theatre is programming in a certain way? Possibly, and that's an issue. Damned if you do etc... It doesn't really help anyone when the demanding masks the actual demand. Certainly doesn't help fringe artists either to have a season mainly dominated by them which doesn't sell well, because that will make the future AD less likely to programme them (I expect, although I hope not, as I do respect RC's somewhat fearless vision and the 'right to fail' ideology). All that is essentially a load of words that come down to my hope that future seasons will be more balanced, and that if people are going to express outrage, they damn well had better support what they're asking for, or otherwise it all just seems hollow. |
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Post by chameleon1 on Mar 23, 2023 12:30:54 GMT
I see your point, but still think you're putting too many demands on the audience, and too few on the theatre. A few years ago (before VF) the RC was discussing these issues, and their conclusion was that the only way to sell shows by unknown playwrights in advance was to make a promise of quality, and to keep it, over time. This doesn't exclude the ability to experiment, and the 'right to fail' - there's a big difference between ambitious experimental work that has clear goals, and just doesn't connect with an audience in the way the creators had hoped, and dull, muddled mediocrity - but it does involve working to devise a definition of 'good' playwriting that doesn't inadvertently exclude experiment, or diverse creative traditions, but doesn't, also, include mediocre work just because it's experimental, or part of those traditions. Hopefully, that's what whoever replaces VF will decide to do.
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Post by wiggymess on Mar 23, 2023 12:53:48 GMT
I see your point, but still think you're putting too many demands on the audience, and too few on the theatre. A few years ago (before VF) the RC was discussing these issues, and their conclusion was that the only way to sell shows by unknown playwrights in advance was to make a promise of quality, and to keep it, over time. This doesn't exclude the ability to experiment, and the 'right to fail' - there's a big difference between ambitious experimental work that has clear goals, and just doesn't connect with an audience in the way the creators had hoped, and dull, muddled mediocrity - but it does involve working to devise a definition of 'good' playwriting that doesn't inadvertently exclude experiment, or diverse creative traditions, but doesn't, also, include mediocre work just because it's experimental, or part of those traditions. Hopefully, that's what whoever replaces VF will decide to do. I hope so too. I don't want to see fringe artists excluded, I just believe there has to be give and take with the demands. If there is a 'demand' from audiences for this type of work, it isn't unfair to demand that those audiences support the work. That support should come at the stage before anyone is able to make a judgement of the quality of the end result, because that is the same stage at which people complain that it's the 'same old' names when established names are announced. Otherwise this is the result - poor attendance and half-empty theatres, leading to the possibility of certain decisions being made. It's very easy to be outraged at something, harder though to actually take steps to be a part (however small) of the solution and progress. Probably just going round and circles and repeating myself here. I'm actually excited for the new season - it's the first in a while where I will look to book at least 3 shows in advance and it does have a mixture of more fringe-orientated shows and some more well-known names, so I'm very hopeful that balance will serve them well and allow the next AD to hit the ground running. It's encouraging that so many people are waiting for them to turn it around and succeed. |
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Post by alessia on Mar 27, 2023 10:11:57 GMT
back to Black Superhero topic, it's cancelled tonight for technical difficulties.
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Post by imstillhere on Mar 27, 2023 21:03:27 GMT
I wonder if it's been canceled because ticket sales are abysmal?
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Post by londonpostie on Mar 27, 2023 22:21:06 GMT
It's £12 Monday, so you would hope not.
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Post by Dave B on Mar 28, 2023 16:36:43 GMT
Also cancelled tonight which was verging on sold-out and with a post show talk.
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Post by n1david on Mar 29, 2023 9:11:08 GMT
How/when have they been communicating cancellations? Doesn't look like they used their Twitter feed to announce. Booked for tonight and would like to know when I will know if I have to trek to Sloane Square...
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Post by zahidf on Mar 29, 2023 9:22:21 GMT
Cancelled on Sat while we waiting in the theatre for the matinee
What's the technical difficulties i wonder... Surely if its just video stuff, they can work around it?
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Post by Dave B on Mar 29, 2023 9:29:11 GMT
How/when have they been communicating cancellations? Doesn't look like they used their Twitter feed to announce. Booked for tonight and would like to know when I will know if I have to trek to Sloane Square... For last night, I got an email at 17.11 and then a follow-up phonecall from BO at 18:08. |
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Post by n1david on Mar 29, 2023 9:36:12 GMT
How/when have they been communicating cancellations? Doesn't look like they used their Twitter feed to announce. Booked for tonight and would like to know when I will know if I have to trek to Sloane Square... For last night, I got an email at 17.11 and then a follow-up phonecall from BO at 18:08. Thanks. That's rather late for people travelling. Even coming from another part of London, I'd be en route by 6. Fingers crossed! |
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Post by alessia on Mar 29, 2023 10:46:18 GMT
I only found out on the Monday morning because I emailed to try and return my ticket. They replied that actually, the performance had been cancelled.
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Post by theatrelover123 on Mar 29, 2023 12:37:00 GMT
I don’t know the full story, but it sounds like it’s not technical difficulties… Ooh curiouser and curiouser. What part of the story do you know?  |
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Post by n1david on Mar 29, 2023 15:34:58 GMT
I tweeted the RCT after our chat on here about 12.15pm. They've just got back to me (4.30pm) to say that "due to circumstances beyond our control, tonight's performance will not be going ahead. We're working to resolve this as soon as possible."
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Post by Rory on Mar 29, 2023 15:49:27 GMT
Is this becoming like Mandela all over again?
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Post by cherokee on Mar 29, 2023 15:54:10 GMT
It's strange. I was considering going to see this, but if they don't know when it will be on again...??
It's presumably not illness or COVID, as they'd just say that if it were the case. So, what's going on? Is the set design so elaborate that they can't perform without a crucial piece of tech, and also so complicated that it can't be fixed after 5 days?
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Post by n1david on Mar 29, 2023 16:05:53 GMT
When I was phoned, I was offered to move to another date, however it will be a challenge for me, so I took a refund. But that does suggest that they hope to get the show up and running again at some point (given the run has a month to go...)
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Post by showgirl on Mar 29, 2023 16:50:44 GMT
I rang to check today as I was going to use an offer to book for tomorrow's matinee, but not if it was likely to be cancelled as I'd prefer to book another production in the first place. As they still didn't even know about tonight, I did indeed book something else but don't know if I'll have another opportunity to see this even if it resumes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2023 17:58:55 GMT
Thursday matinee cancelled per email I just received.
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Post by nottobe on Mar 29, 2023 18:56:09 GMT
Maybe it's because I'm nosey but I would love to know why it's cancelled. Do we think the luke warm reception is causing some friction ?
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Post by showgirl on Mar 30, 2023 3:13:16 GMT
Tt's certainly peculiar and puzzling and imo, not good PR. If it's cast illness or a technical issue (though the latter type are usually shorter-lived), theatres announce this, so giving no reason at all and saying nothing publicly will only fuel speculation and suspicion.
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Post by teamyali on Mar 30, 2023 7:18:48 GMT
I follow Danny Lee Wynter on Instagram and often he’s very active in posting on IG stories.
Hours ago in his story, he said, “This story is not your business.” (In small texts)
Hmmm…we need more tea on what’s happening! He’s also not posting much on Twitter except for retweets.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2023 9:11:34 GMT
Hmmm…we need more tea on what’s happening!
Do we though? Maybe the story is not one for public consumption ... or at least not at this moment.
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Post by foxa on Mar 30, 2023 16:11:44 GMT
Today's matinee was cancelled and I see that bookings aren't being accepted for tonight's performance either.
Technical difficulties usually are overcome more quickly than this - I remember 'Wild' dealing with problems with its' extraordinary, gravity defying set or, recently, Standing at the Sky's Edge performed with the lights up. If it was illness, I think they would say,so must be something else.
I thought the reviews were okay, enough that I was thinking of going.
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