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Post by anthony40 on Apr 2, 2023 17:36:46 GMT
I am there on Tuesday night
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Post by benny20 on Apr 2, 2023 18:31:09 GMT
Is it true they are only being paid a pittance for appearing in this show??
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Post by kirsty86 on Apr 2, 2023 19:29:50 GMT
I went to this last week and was so looking forward to it. Missed the first run but love the album and have to say I didn’t like it unfortunately. I’ve seen nothing but good things from anyway else, so must just be a me thing! It’s such a small theatre so the cast didn’t seem to have mics on, which was fine for everyone except the actress playing the lead as her singing voice was so quiet it was hard to hear over the music. Also seemed too weird to me that she’s meant to be middle aged but the actress was early 20s from what I could see, so it made some of her lines seem very strange when talking about her life.
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Post by Dave B on Apr 2, 2023 19:32:43 GMT
Is it true they are only being paid a pittance for appearing in this show?? It appears to be. Mark Shenton has pointed to it and had a few Twitter spats over it in the last couple of weeks. There is a thread here if you want... |
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Post by max on Apr 3, 2023 10:15:24 GMT
It's been known for some time that Mark Shenton will no longer review plays/musicals that aren't produced under the Equity Fringe Agreement. That's a fair and principled stand. What's new is that I haven't noticed him 'going for' a show before, in the way he has this. Isn't withdrawing his support/publicity for it enough? Why single this one out specifically for what feels like public shaming?
The debates around 'no pay/low pay' have been rehearsed at length, and The Stage newspaper used to have a whole tab on it (perhaps they still do). It's possible to revive that discussion - as Shenton is quite fairly doing - without raining down bricks on one particular show/producer.
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Post by max on Apr 3, 2023 10:22:27 GMT
I went to this last week and was so looking forward to it. Missed the first run but love the album and have to say I didn’t like it unfortunately. I’ve seen nothing but good things from anyway else, so must just be a me thing! It’s such a small theatre so the cast didn’t seem to have mics on, which was fine for everyone except the actress playing the lead as her singing voice was so quiet it was hard to hear over the music. Also seemed too weird to me that she’s meant to be middle aged but the actress was early 20s from what I could see, so it made some of her lines seem very strange when talking about her life. My memory of the West End production is that there were a number of fantasy sequences - and though those are inherently theatrical, they are also a bit of a stop on the dramatic forward motion, those songs not really carrying the story forward. It may just not be the best candidate for musicalisation. It's certainly disappointing when a set of songs you've loved don't seem part of a satisfying piece when you see the whole show in its full context. Biggest example of that for me was 'I Know Him So Well' in Chess - a song which everyone anticipates, and yet achieves very little when it actually arrives, due to the thin storyline of one of the characters, and the fact the structure doesn't really have a compelling place for it. |
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Post by Boob on Apr 3, 2023 12:22:29 GMT
It's been known for some time that Mark Shenton will no longer review plays/musicals that aren't produced under the Equity Fringe Agreement. That's a fair and principled stand. What's new is that I haven't noticed him 'going for' a show before, in the way he has this. Isn't withdrawing his support/publicity for it enough? Why single this one out specifically for what feels like public shaming? The debates around 'no pay/low pay' have been rehearsed at length, and The Stage newspaper used to have a whole tab on it (perhaps they still do). It's possible to revive that discussion - as Shenton is quite fairly doing - without raining down bricks on one particular show/producer. Esp this particular venue at a time when it’s facing pandemic rent arrears of over £100k from its landlord (who were also landlords for Above the Stag…). (Although I also want people paid fairly for their work!) |
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Post by capybara on Apr 6, 2023 0:09:03 GMT
I saw this tonight and really enjoyed it.
Several members of the cast were obviously much younger than the characters they were portraying, but that starts to make sense given the discussion over what they are being paid.
I thought they did an excellent job. Atherton was wonderful as Joyce and Kipling likewise as Gilbert. The pair had chemistry which contributed to some tender moments.
The comedy landed well but for a few fumbles from some of the older performers, actually. Also, not one to be hypercritical of a child actor but the Veronica Allardyce we saw seemed fairly disengaged from the piece.
I also think this may be the first time I’ve seen a musical where the actors haven’t needed to be mic’d up.
First visit to the Union Theatre also. It’s a really intimate setting and I’d suggest arriving early enough to get seats in the first couple of rows for a really special experience.
Four stars and weighing up whether a return visit could be in order.
As an aside, does anyone know if there are plans for this to have another life after this run? It does feel worthy of a bigger setting and there seems to be a buzz about it after Cameron paid a visit to press night…
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Post by anita on Apr 6, 2023 9:07:12 GMT
Rather worried about them not being miked up. Not sure that I'll hear them.
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Post by alece10 on Apr 6, 2023 9:17:21 GMT
I've seen a few shows over the years at the Union and I don't think they have ever been mic'd. Never had a problem hearing as its such a tiny venue.
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Post by capybara on Apr 6, 2023 9:39:34 GMT
Rather worried about them not being miked up. Not sure that I'll hear them. No issues for me last night. One or two moments when the singing was taking place across the stage but even then, I could still hear the words over the band. |
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Post by anthony40 on Apr 6, 2023 10:05:40 GMT
I saw this on Tuesday evening.
When I booked this I had no idea that I was attending the Press Night.
A free programme and a paper bad fill with fudge was very much appreciated.
The show just works- it's humerous, witty and draws you in.
It has been many years since I have been to the Union Theatre- in fact so long, I got a little lost trying to find it.
I also had forgotten what a small space this was,
Now, whilst I generally don't have a problem with small spaces, it's a problem when you have a cast of this size.
That's not to criticise the talent on stage- there are a lot of extremely good voices however even if you were to reduce the ensemble by 5-6, it would still be be overcrowded.
From memory there was one really bad missed lighting cue in the middle of Act 1.
As I have the original cast recording it took my ear a little while to adjust to the new vocals.
The whole cast work their socks off.
There seemed to be a verse missing from the Painting song and an extra song added that I didn't know.
All the costumes were spot on.
For me, the only song that didn't work in this show for me was There's An Ill Wind; possible because of the staging.
I remember in the original production the ladies singing each wore gas masks.
Whereas in the original Betty was animatronic, in this she's a patchwork pig operated by one handler.
Sir Cameron Macintosh sitting in front of me and either Stiles or Drew-I'm not sure which, next to him.
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Post by anita on Apr 12, 2023 9:51:57 GMT
Well I saw this last night. Sat in middle of second row & heard nearly everything. [ Anything I missed due to my poor hearing.] Loved it. Got soaked on way home.
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Post by adamkinsey on Apr 12, 2023 14:37:21 GMT
I do have an issue with the Union operating on a profit share with a maximum of £250 for six weeks work. There's one thing being a group of actors that come together to do something on PS they believe in but very different for a proper in-house month-long run at a respected venue. They should be paying Equity fringe minimum.
I've heard the huge rent bill they are facing as an excuse to make it acceptable but the Union did this long before Covid and the current difficulty. Sasha Regan's all make Pinafore and Mikado are doing the rounds again so where is that money going? Sasha can afford to go to a boutique hotel in Morocco this winter just gone and Paris in February with her daughter. Be nice if she paid her actors and musicians enough to be able to afford a weekend at Butlins...
Sorry, but a good AD leads by example. Getting the begging bowl out to pay the rent while paying actors peanuts is not on. I bet Kevin Wilson PR ain't doing his bit for profit share.
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Post by anthony40 on Apr 12, 2023 15:01:50 GMT
This (I believe) is something that Mark Shelton has been banging on about on his Twitter account.
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Post by Being Alive on Apr 12, 2023 15:07:36 GMT
...but if you don't want to work for that amount of money...then don't?
Also, someone going on holiday outside of their job has literally nothing to do with how their business runs? Why are you internet deep diving to find this out - isn't that a bit weird?
I don't understand this argument at all - if you have a problem with it don't give them your money and/or don't work for them. The people who are doing the job evidently didn't have a problem with it or they wouldn't have taken the job - if you don't like it don't do it, but don't tell other people what to do
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Post by Being Alive on Apr 12, 2023 15:07:49 GMT
This (I believe) is something that Mark Shelton has been banging on about on his Twitter account. Quelle surprise |
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Post by adamkinsey on Apr 12, 2023 15:18:19 GMT
...but if you don't want to work for that amount of money...then don't? Also, someone going on holiday outside of their job has literally nothing to do with how their business runs? Why are you internet deep diving to find this out - isn't that a bit weird? I don't understand this argument at all - if you have a problem with it don't give them your money and/or don't work for them. The people who are doing the job evidently didn't have a problem with it or they wouldn't have taken the job - if you don't like it don't do it, but don't tell other people what to do In any other business a director going on expensive holidays while paying staff less than minimum wage would be considered as pretty crappy behaviour. But it's theatre, so it's ok apparently. It also suggests poor financial management. The Union were doing this sort of pay back in 2018 and are now claiming financial difficulty solely due to Covid. It's business model has been ropey for a long time. Now they want us to save them again. Equity and Bectu fight hard to get acceptable - if hardly well-paid - rates for actors and technicians. If we turn a blind eye to this sort of thing we're not valuing the performers and crew as we should. We're saying it's ok for them to be exploited. |
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Post by Being Alive on Apr 12, 2023 15:32:01 GMT
Whilst I understand what you're saying, I return to the point of...you don't have to take these jobs.
If you're unhappy with the terms...don't do it? I don't get what's difficult about this.
And there are plenty of other professions when bosses take expensive holidays and people underneath are paid badly. Thats life, not just theatre.
And I don't know as I count a weekend with your daughter in Paris as an expensive holiday but that's just me. I don't think we should be stipulating everyone should holidays at Butlins or whatever
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Post by adamkinsey on Apr 12, 2023 16:50:27 GMT
Whilst I understand what you're saying, I return to the point of...you don't have to take these jobs. If you're unhappy with the terms...don't do it? I don't get what's difficult about this. And there are plenty of other professions when bosses take expensive holidays and people underneath are paid badly. Thats life, not just theatre. And I don't know as I count a weekend with your daughter in Paris as an expensive holiday but that's just me. I don't think we should be stipulating everyone should holidays at Butlins or whatever I take it you've never worked in the industry as I have? There's a difference being paid badly (but would at least be legal minimum wage) to potentially NOT BEING PAID AT ALL. Actors reluctantly take on these jobs in the hope of it being a shop window for future work. But it's still exploitation by producers and theatrelovers not really minding this is rather sad to my mind. |
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Post by Being Alive on Apr 12, 2023 17:01:50 GMT
I've worked in this industry for nearly 15 years, and I still hold the same opinion.
As I said in the Mincemeat thread, agree to disagree etc.
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Post by steve10086 on Apr 12, 2023 17:41:50 GMT
I've worked in this industry for nearly 15 years, and I still hold the same opinion. As I said in the Mincemeat thread, agree to disagree etc. Sounds like blaming the exploited for being exploited, rather than criticising the exploiters. |
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Post by capybara on Apr 16, 2023 13:43:40 GMT
Went back last night and enjoyed it even more!
I was sat in the front row this time and having a better knowledge of the songs seemed to give me more of an appreciation of the wider show.
Being so close also meant I felt more invested in some of the more emotional songs in the piece, such as Magic Fingers and The Kind of Man I Am.
I loved every minute and, you know what, I’d probably revise it up to a five star show on second viewing. It deserves a bigger stage but this company and creative team did the absolute most that is possible in such a tight space.
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Post by bwayboy22 on Apr 17, 2023 8:53:07 GMT
Saw this Saturday night. First time for the venue and the show. Loved both. The cast worked their tails off! Loved the choreography too. So glad I saw this!
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Post by max on Apr 17, 2023 9:35:22 GMT
I'm going to this on Thursday night. As for the debate on No Pay/Low Pay: this has been a hit, and IF there was a chance of a further life then it's a shame the ensemble is so huge. If it could be taken forward, and everyone earn from it on that future transfer, then there would be a more respectable production model in place. But there's no way it could be viable taking every member of the ensemble forward, surely.
I realise that this is still a murky premise I'm suggesting, as the inducement of 'If we transfer, you'll earn money then' could be used v tenuously for shows that clearly don't have wide enough appeal to go onwards however well received they are.
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