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Post by Seriously on Sept 23, 2018 16:40:08 GMT
Well Beverley Knight was announced in the part in May, so presumably they knew there was going to be singing at that point.
And that's not adding the several months it usually takes to secure a name, and negotiate a contract.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 16:53:06 GMT
But when did they hire Beverley Knight? Before they even hit the workshops, or after they realised they were going for a musical and would need some great voices? I don't think the process is as black and white as you're making out; I don't think anyone lied about their intentions, and I don't think it's impossible to start workshopping and selling a dance piece, then later realise it's going to be a musical and will need some good singers. I’m not denying there’s been a few disasters in this musical, but I’m not sure why the great “Conspiracy” ideas or sense the Vic is out to screw the punters? Seems perfectly reasonable for Zoo Nation to be creating a piece then go “hey ion know what would make this better? That badass Beverley Knight and some others belting the sh*t out of it” |
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Post by Seriously on Sept 23, 2018 17:29:31 GMT
Perhaps the better idea might be to actually workshop the show and decide what it is before booking a West End Venue and then having to hand back money?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 17:35:51 GMT
I saw it last night, I thought it was a wonderful evening and it has the potential to be absolutely outstanding. It won't actually take much more work as most of it is cutting things away rather than adding or changing.
First thing - make a cast recording in advance of its return and promote it so that people know some of the songs as these songs are some of the best British musical theatre songs I've heard in a decade or more.
Second thing - put more buttons on songs, especially in the early to mid parts of both acts. The audience were desperate to respond and they did when possible but you can use that audience energy and really hype the audience up. Keep the latter ends of each act without them to build up the tension, though. The show is profligate with its songs because of this, one example that I thought was ready to build to a climax and that energy release was 'No Angel in the House', so make the most of these great numbers.
Third thing - I loved the wide net it used for the story but some things, however good, need to go. The way that the poor were sidelined comes across in the second act but using Annie Kenney more in the earlier parts would make this arc more powerful. If anything, I'd cut some of the Sylvia/Hardie romance, it's fine but it could be more secondary.
Fourth thing (and by far the most important and necessary) - get a new technical team. You have cast, staging and numbers that work so, so well yet the lighting adds little and the sound is very poor indeed. You need to hear the words and (on occasion) I had to look at the captioning at the side of the stage to check what I'd heard. Work with the Hamilton people, their sound is pristine, crystal clear, yet this in comparison was more like listening to it on an old mono radio. The sound should envelop the audience and so the action appears to surround them rather than seeming to emanate from behind the prosc. arch. The tech team are the hidden weapon of any modern musical, when they don't deliver then it makes everyone else's job more difficult.
Fifth thing - employ a bigger band, a lot of the music demands a good horn section (and who doesn't like a good horn section?) There are some four-to-the-floor disco stompers, for example, that practically demand some horn interjections and counter-melodies.
The show is brilliant, it can become epic.
(One massive gripe with the Old Vic, whoever decided it was a good idea to not send out physical tickets should be put on toilet cleaning duty, given how much it contributes to a show starting late. After faffing with getting a phone or ipad out, it needing the passcode putting in again and then the email not opening properly there could be many more people not waiting impatiently to do the same)
Cast album, please!
P.S. I wonder if Angela Lansbury ever thought she'd see her Grandfather as a character in a musical! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 18:16:03 GMT
From The Stage interview with Warchus ...
That must be a comfort to all of those who paid full price for a truncated perfomance!
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Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 23, 2018 18:26:14 GMT
The arrogance of Warchus bragging about not losing money is pretty unacceptable.
Serious questions need to be asked about how all of this failed to come together.
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Post by Mark on Sept 23, 2018 18:39:07 GMT
Also how on earth does a production like this “recoup” in less than three weeks?
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Post by Seriously on Sept 23, 2018 18:46:20 GMT
It's also incredibly insulting to productions that rehearsed professionally, and put on great performances... to have Warchus bragging about how "successful" it was.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 19:13:34 GMT
It's also incredibly insulting to productions that rehearsed professionally, and put on great performances... to have Warchus bragging about how "successful" it was. Good grief. What do people have against this show? I don’t even think you’ve seen it. Why the hatred? I saw it on Saturday and it is powerful theatre...and it will only get better. Or perhaps we can all just keep talking about bloody Blood Brothers and pretend that’s a modern British musical we should all be proud of? |
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Post by Seriously on Sept 23, 2018 19:18:30 GMT
You mean the Olivier award winning, Drama Desk award winning, and Tony Award nominated Blood Brothers?
Or the... "refunds are available" Sylvia?
Tough choice.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 19:20:46 GMT
You mean the Olivier award winning, Drama Desk award winning, and Tony Award nominated Blood Brothers? Or the... "refunds are available" Sylvia? Tough choice. I’ve seen both, so I am in a strong position to make a comparison. You? |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 23, 2018 19:21:04 GMT
The issues are about the process and promotion
1 - The show wasn't ready - meaning early audiences were not shown the final sequences. It could have been done in concert format - but it wasn't. It was just left hanging.
2 - It was promoted initially as finished product. And it was later described as a work in progress - with no reduction in prices.
If they had been honest from the start and priced accordingly, most of this backlash could have been avoided.
It was a failure in the rehearsal room as they couldn't get it ready in time
It was a failure of management in allowing that to happen
It was a failure of the whole theatre not to have managed this properly
Shows should be allowed to develop - no-one has denied that. But you have to respect your audiences enough to be honest about where they actually were in the process.
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Post by Seriously on Sept 23, 2018 19:22:09 GMT
You mean the Olivier award winning, Drama Desk award winning, and Tony Award nominated Blood Brothers? Or the... "refunds are available" Sylvia? Tough choice. I’ve seen both, so I am in a strong position to make a comparison. You? I conduct West End musicals for a living, and teach theatre. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 19:26:58 GMT
I’ve seen both, so I am in a strong position to make a comparison. You? I conduct West End musicals for a living, and teach theatre. I didn’t ask for your CV. I asked if you’ve seen the musical you have been dogging on. |
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Post by Seriously on Sept 23, 2018 19:28:29 GMT
I conduct West End musicals for a living, and teach theatre. I didn’t ask for your CV. I asked if you’ve seen the musical you have been dogging on. Dogging! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 19:33:32 GMT
The issues are about the process and promotion 1 - The show wasn't ready - meaning early audiences were not shown the final sequences. It could have been done in concert format - but it wasn't. It was just left hanging. 2 - It was promoted initially as finished product. And it was later described as a work in progress - with no reduction in prices. If they had been honest from the start and priced accordingly, most of this backlash could have been avoided. It was a failure in the rehearsal room as they couldn't get it ready in time It was a failure of management in allowing that to happen It was a failure of the whole theatre not to have managed this properly Shows should be allowed to develop - no-one has denied that. But you have to respect your audiences enough to be honest about where they actually were in the process. Is this really a “backlash”? It seems mostly to be complaining from people who haven’t seen it. I haven’t conducted an exhaustive search on here, but we he overall sense, from the people who have actually seen it, is delight. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 19:34:39 GMT
I didn’t ask for your CV. I asked if you’ve seen the musical you have been dogging on. Dogging! Woof. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 23, 2018 19:36:17 GMT
Anything you want to tell us Seriously? 😆 I haven’t seen it (sorry sorry mea culpa etc ) but I think the audiences have been treated appallingly. |
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Post by firefingers on Sept 23, 2018 19:40:15 GMT
I conduct West End musicals for a living, and teach theatre. I didn’t ask for your CV. I asked if you’ve seen the musical you have been dogging on. Alright, I’ve seen both and completely agree with Seriously. The way the paying audience have been treated with this show has been egregious. Hell I even worked on Blood Borthers at one point in my career, and to my knowledge it never got to Take A Letter Miss Jones and then stopped due to “safety” with the ending left unknown but the audience meant to leave feeling blessed. And if it had done, refunds would have been offered. And the fact Sylvia recouped doesn’t surprise, but to brag about it is beyond the pale. Done on a shoe string with not enough budget spent on tech time and decent sound. Bad form. |
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Post by Seriously on Sept 23, 2018 20:44:16 GMT
It's also quite harmful to people's careers. A lot of people have mentioned the sound being poor, and are thus blaming the sound operator.
I wouldn't mind betting that the book writer, additional music writer, lyricist, choreographer and director (Kate Prince) got so far behind schedule that there was no time for a proper tech or dress run, and through constantly changing things every department suffered.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 20:50:36 GMT
Again, pure speculation (which would seem to be ‘quite harmful to people’s careers’).
That also sounds like projection from previous experience to me, seeing as we are on the subject of pure speculation.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 21:09:56 GMT
It's also incredibly insulting to productions that rehearsed professionally, and put on great performances... to have Warchus bragging about how "successful" it was. Good grief. What do people have against this show? I don’t even think you’ve seen it. Why the hatred? I saw it on Saturday and it is powerful theatre...and it will only get better. Or perhaps we can all just keep talking about bloody Blood Brothers and pretend that’s a modern British musical we should all be proud of? I have issue with them charging full price for a show which was clearly incomplete for at least 80% of the shows that were performed. Not all were offered refunds. You might have been lucky enough to see the full show but hundreds of people were not. It should never have been advertised as anything more than a workshop. |
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Post by Seriously on Sept 23, 2018 21:46:21 GMT
Again, pure speculation (which would seem to be ‘quite harmful to people’s careers’). That also sounds like projection from previous experience to me, seeing as we are on the subject of pure speculation. It is. I've worked with lots of directors who've over-ran, and the knock on effect has meant everyone else had less time. What's your point Cardinal Pirelli? |
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Post by paddy72 on Sept 23, 2018 22:45:27 GMT
Wow. People are really angry about this but I still don’t get why. I don’t work in theatre but for what I paid - a fair price in my opinion - what I got to see was a show that genuinely thrilled and excited me. Part of that was its rawness and hearing and seeing a cast of exceptional talent presenting something new and original for the first time. I felt like we the audience were part of what was happening here. And I certainly don’t think any other members of my audience felt short changed in any way. It was a shared experience that sent us all out buzzing with excitement. Most gratifying was seeing the many school kids in attendance leaving singing and acting out some of what they had just seen up on stage. If this was there first experience of theatre I am genuinely pleased that it was Sylvia and that it was in a theatre that had the guts to produce such a different show. Congratulations Old Vic. As for laying into Matthew Warchus.... well if I could do just half of what he does, I would be a proud man.
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Post by Seriously on Sept 23, 2018 23:03:14 GMT
So you don't feel the people who arrived to find their performance cancelled "felt short changed in any way"?
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